Goodbye, and thanks for the fish

The Iluvatarian Knights are officially leaving the alliance. We have had quite a few good raids together, and a lot of fun. But then there has been some other aspects of this alliance that has caused us to draw back and look upon the fruits of our collaboration with all the more caution and hesitation.

We have had a few members leave our ranks and join 666, you all know that. Some of them joined RoR too, but before they became part of the alliance. We respect their own will and understand they make their own choices as to which kinship they want to belong to. Still, we entered into this alliance on the pretense that it would make us stronger and cater for the aspects of the game that weren't available to our capped players. The purpose of this alliance from our point of view was to make it possible for those members to stay with our kinship. As such, we would expect the members of the alliance to not usurp our members, but rather tell them "leave your kinship if you like, but you can't join us". Such a response would strengthen the bonds within the alliance even if those members would decide to leave our ranks anyway. In addition to this, when I sent my second in command Nisraen to sort out these issues, it seems he was met with disrespect and scorn from your leader Loken, which is another thing that just cannot be accepted.

I still consider Loken to be a good guy, as well as a lot of other members of your kinship with which I have had the pleasure of accompanying from time to time. But I am now fully convinced that the collaboration between our kinships is detrimental on our part and as such cannot be continued. We are a very casual kinship, and if we should have a collaboration of the alliance type that should be aimed at other kinships who are of like mind as us. So no hard feelings, really, but officially our ways will now depart from one another.

There may still be members of our kinship who decide to stay in the mellon channel and who will continue to communicate with the alliance and try to join in on your raids. It is up to you if you take them along or not. But you should treat them as foreign, and not as parts of the alliance kinships.

I am sorry to hear this as I never meant for your kin to be put in a position where you were becoming weaker.

I understand your stand on whether kins can accept other alliance members if they decide to switch kins but this was not offically discussed. I can see your point of view but I have to think of my kin first before the alliance and I will always do so. I will always decide on who the player is on whether to offer them a place in our kin regardless of their history and previous kins.

I agree me and Nisraen do not see eye to eye and as stated he found be disrespectfull and scornfull but then I will react when I have been provoked in the first place. Regardless, its 6 of 1 and half a dozen of another as far as I am concerned. (means its both parties not just 1).

I still count you as a good guy too Garyu and hope this doesnt affect our standing with each other.

Your players will be welcome on Mellon and I doubt anyone will have a problem with that.

Good luck to IK for the future.

Loken

Hey Garyu,

I`m really sorry to see the alliance go this way, but I am more concerned with the allegations made, so I write this for your kin, and also the others in the alliance.

Firstly, as far as I am aware, and I spend a lot of time in-game, none of your players have been `poached`, friendships have formed and some players have decided to join us, that is entirely thier decision, and whether they join our kin (on approval) or a different kin is irrelevant, the fact is they were not happy in yours, and to ask us to turn away players on the grounds they are in an alliance kin is ludicrous. If a good player asks to join us, from any kin, then we would not turn them away without good reason. We do not usurp your players, we consider who they are and if we agree we recruit them, if you spoke to the relevant players i`m sure you would see this.

Secondly, rather than cast accusations at Loken, you should look closer to home, I`m sure you would see that Nis was the one that made accusations and treated our kin leader with dis-respect, and yes, maybe Loken met like with like, but it was your successor that started things badly, I know for an absolute fact that Loken treats everybody fairly and respectfully, and I`m sure you know this too, otherwise you would never have joined the alliance, so look closer to home for ppl to blame, the 666 have in no way acted improperly.

Lastly, players flitter between kins constantly, for numerous reasons, end game content, friends or simply just for a change, if we were in the habit of poaching I`m sure that someone in the alliance would have reported it previously, but let this be a bit of a warning, the alliance has helped many ppl, players have now gained raid experience, gained class armour and made good friends, but every alliance has its problems, but 666 are not to blame, and I and many others will not be used as scapegoats when your kin(s) start to have problems.

Garyu I wish you and all your kin all the best in the future, but please do not use the 666 as the reason you are having problems, rather look inside your kin and root out the problems, I sincerely hope that we see each other in-game, and that there are no more hard feelings.

Good Luck in whatever you do

I have noticed my character has been accused of being disrespectfull on the RoR board too by Garyu's post.

I have to say that to take the story from Nisraen only and not talk to me before you post that has caused me some concern as I thought you knew me at least a little to realise that the way you worded that makes it sound like I am a cock for no reason!

That has upset me really considering I never intentionally upset anyone and I actually approached Nisraen to sort it out, not the other way and I have noted he has contracticted his comments to say that Locke never was accused of not talking freely on your forum but in our fellowship conversation with me and Locke, Nisraen actually accused Locke of being put up to defending 666!! His attitude from the start from the conversation like his posts on your forum are aggressive and offensive. I have always talked diplomatically and I actually gave up the conversation as Nisraen was not interested in a discussion, only to point the finger and blame 666! I will never tolorate that ever!

I will not be bothering to continue with this as it will not bring anything positive but more flaming and accusations.

Next time though, do not post that I am disrespectfull without all facts!

Loken

oops. my mistake. rather embarassing. I copied/pasted the text I wrote here to save myself some typing and intended to change it accordingly. my intention was not to throw accusations around, but to inform about the reasons to our parting. I have made a slight edit (no point now in removing the comment as you already replied on the matter).

the reason I put it in there on this forum is that I have currently no good way of chatting with you, Loken, and I wanted to communicate that the description Nisraen gave of your chat with him was one that put the nails in the lid of the coffin (to use a swedish saying). In my opinion, the entire reason to why this collaboration hasn't worked out is that the philosophies of our respective kinships are far too different. You've got some really great players, and we have some of those too, but with a totally different outlook on how things should be done and with the following bad communication on matters, it has just been too difficult to keep everyone on good terms with eachother.

iv given my opinion of this matter on another thread, but basically i feel the same as reavor. 666 has done no wrong here, as far as im concerned nisraen has acted very childishly and tried to point blame at others, when the problems are most likely a lot closer to home. as a kin we have been in similar positions but we have dealt with things internally and come out stronger. the question you should be looking at is why your players want to join us even though they had our backing with end game content.

i have never had a problem with you gary and i think your a decent bloke, but i really cant agree with the way this has been dealt with. if i were you id be looking for a less confrontational successor right about now.

oh and i find the idea that we should turn players away because were in an alliance absolutely rediculous!

Well,tbh ive got nothing to do with this,but if i may say something,i do not stick up for no1 even if they've done something wrong(including kinnies)so here we go...In my oppinion i believed that members from IK never really decided to get involved in anything whilst i was on lotro,except a few occasions when they'd join a raid.This may be due to ppl being offline or busy but i'm sure they could have made more effort(understand please that i'm not bitching).I understand that IK has had wat they call"Member poaching" and tbh i believe that ur kin must realise that the members who decide to leave your kin may want to join 666 for numerous reasons and should do that at their own accord and wish.And i don't see why 666 shud turn down recruits from other kins if the person wants to.Tbh wen i first met Nisraen,and i'm not pointing the finger but i thought that he/she was very quiet,didnt contribute much and i also heard off a few members of the alliance that he/she was accusing them.Personally,rather than accuse each other,both kins shud try to either resolve the issue in friendly terms or for IK to be classed as a friendly kin but not part of the alliance but shud be able to remain in contact or that both kins shud be able to join one anothers raids.

From wat i've heard however,perhaps u shud look at IK in general and especially Nisraen,i'm not being mean,however i did hear many rumours about him/her.And one last thing,Loken from wat i know treats everyone as a equal,likes a laugh and is a very nice guy in general,but from wat i know too,u are a nice guy garyu aswell,maybe just make up or sort these crazy accusations made by Nisraen out b4 pointing fingers at each other.
Just my oppinion,sry if in interfearing,but i thought id say wat i believe.
Elderon
Ex-666 Member-Left For AOC.

I would like to apologize on behalf of ROR for any offence that a post on our forum may have caused you Loken. I am saddened that IK left the alliance before bringing their concerns to the attention of the whole alliance leadership. I do feel that players should be able to join any kin that they feel comfortable with on the condition that the player asks to join rather than the new kin making the initial approach.
I value the fact that the alliance has allowed me to share concerns about problkems with other kin leaders and i feel that strangers have become friends. I am sure Loken you know that if i feel something needs to be sorted i will not sit on my hands and do nothing, however i believe that people should be treated with respect, listened to and reasoned argument be used to resolve any problems

Ian, when i meant offended I was referring to Garyu's post when it mentioned the part about me and Nisraen. No-one in RoR has offended me

I have amended my post to clarify what I meant. Sorry for the confusion!

Loken

Wot? No one from ROR offended you? Ever? Why, we can't leave it at that, can we? Hmmm... I'll have to think of something really mean